Abracadabra Degen Box needs to be banned

I am told that another $300mil of $MIM was released today. Headed for Anchor.

Even the slightest depeg will blow up the whole ecosystem…


And now it’s out that “Sifu” Dani’s fellow ponzi artist is a straight up criminal and con artist.

This is as shady as it gets. All relations with this Sesta should be severed immediately.


Yes, Im totally for a ban against theese predator methods.


It’s actually going the other way. Additional MIM isn’t being deployed. Positions are being closed due to the recent Wonderland saga.

There is no difference in Abra or any other protocol leveraging a yield bearing asset like aUST for a stable and cycling. These aren’t predatory methods, they’re a legitimate utilisation of asset leverage. These methods are rebranded and badged in pretty much every Layer 1 in some form or fashion.

This use of leverage, is the reason your Luna hit $100 a coin. UST adoption through whatever means was the singular focus point. MIM accelerated that target.

The only consideration here, is bad press may create market impact. Bad actors are always going to exist in financial systems. There is nothing we can do about un-doxxed operators exploiting a decentralised system. They will always go hand in hand, it’s a risk but that is why we talk about gains in multipliers rather than percentage.

What we do is risky, that’s why we get paid for it


You are correct. These were not predatory methods as the funneling of 100’s of millions of UST into the degenbox was an Abracadabra - TFL sponsored partnership.

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So now that it looks like that abracadabra may be a front for drug money laundering, given the real backers behind it, behind Daniele and Omar aka Michael (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/se2dcj/danielle_sestagalli_wonderland_is_connected_to/ - supposedly the backers are from Tether/Bitfiniex and a convinced drug money launderer, mafia), do we finally see that if we don’t want Anchor and anyone connected to it to be sued and regulated (outlawed or criminalized potentially even) into oblivion, we need some basic controls and ToS/AUP? Just like for every single thing on the Internet that has ever lasted.

This is what I proposed on this. I still think that’s a sound community proposal on which to build on.

Hopefully TFL and it’s principals are not in bed too deep with the abracadabra bunch of crooks, criminals and felons. There’s a real chance they may be subject to some government criminal investigations now, I suspect, given how much Anchor was used unchecked by abracadabra, the sums involved, and the potential mixing of clean with dirty money there - while brand new UST were minted.

Now that it’s out in the open it’s outright irresponsible, IMO, for Anchor to keep allowing this tainted MIM associated money remain on Anchor. There should be, IMO, emergency action taken to get it off Anchor at once. Clean house, so that at least it’s a better late than never action on banning these criminals and money launderers. Reputationally also, if dirty money remains, clean money will be forced to leave in droves, due to the damaging association with the less than savory single largest Anchor depositor.


Man… You can’t make those kinds of wild accusations and then state that as your source.

Don’t get me wrong, i’m fundamentally aligned with what you’re saying here, re protection and development of the chain and the rooting out of bad actors. But if you were to try and use that disastrously disjointed reddit post as proof of any kind of maleficence… You’re out of luck.

We’re in disaster recovery mode here. But don’t inflate a story and spread disinformation without credibility, you pollute your cause and create ammunition where there was none.


Price of UST fluctuating wildly and going down, almost depegging. Maybe depegging is not so bad after all as it will liquidate the degenbox guys and get rid of unnecessary load on Anchor :smiley: natural balancing. I believe in Anchor and Terra ecosystem. Although I am worried I did not yet withdraw even 1 ust.


Yes, Sesta has clear and abundant ties to serious organized criminals. He needs to get the fuck out. If TFL and Anchor don’t care about this, then it was never going to make it in the long run anyway. Still time to take profits and move on before the shit really hits the fan. Let’s see if there is any integrity here or not.


I was warning about this situation over a month ago. It will not be enjoyable to watch if it happens, but perhaps people will think twice before aping into leveraged looping / gambling.

This Abracadabra partnership has been a disaster. Hopefully we can get back to more of a sound risk management footing going forward.


TFL credibility is damaged, possibly beyond repair, now, given how they cheered abaracadabra on. They can’t credibly claim ignorance, that they had no clue of who they were getting in bed with.

Is there a way for Anchor to continue with TFL and esp it’s compromised leadership being totally cut out of the picture? Seems unlikely, as Anchor is their primary vehicle to drive Terra adoption…and UST minting…and LUNA price pumps.

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Honestly Anchor is fine and degenbox is auditable. The fact we saw all of this on chain over a month ago @narco78 proves it’s nothing that can rug us. Most users who were aware already pulled from the protocol a while back before borrowing and collaterals started to drop.

Functionally there is nothing breaking, we’re revamping the protocol. This is as someone who’s only stake in anchor at present is the tokens I earned from borrowing. I’m excited to get back into anchor with the changes.

TFL planning to top up reserves, so things are safe money market and growth wise.

I do think we need to put a disclaimer that Anchor governance is in no way associated with what is presently happening with the mim degenbox, they are just a client of ours that uses the protocol as intended and nothing more.

Cutting MIM degenbox is fine too. I am MORE than happy to see that parasite off any platform I’m on.


Sorry, but what is TFL?

It’s become clear the entire degenbox saga has been a massive pre-planned game by Terraform Labs, and we’ve all been played.

We already gathered the degenbox (via MIM-UST LP) was just a funnel for TFL to liquidate hundreds of millions of UST. The big question is why and what for?

The on chain data suggests they were accumulating massive amounts of USDT and USDC and deploying them to various exchanges. We can only assume this was either malicious activity or they are going to use these stables to defend the peg for either profits, or possibly recycle accumulated UST back into the yield reserve.

Let’s hope it was the latter and the last time we see TFL sponsored external recursive leverage for any purpose.


Always ready to jump on the next fud narrative, there’s no reason to believe malicious action yet you’re ready to jump on that train, if you want adoption there needs to be liquidity and someone needs to keep the peg.

Doesn’t it strike you as odd that they only did outflows where UST is available? Maybe I don’t know, to arb it? See if people are selling UST, someone needs to be on the other side buying it, making sure it doesn’t fall below peg. Is it so odd that TFL takes on that role while the ecosystem grows? I’m sure that in a few weeks there will be a bunch of outflows to FTX too, who just announced UST on their platform.

If you have that little trust in the process and TFL, why are you still invested? And if you’re not invested anymore, then why are you still here?


I’d take a guess and say this may be TFL buying to create the “multi billion dollar reserves” as mentioned by Do Kwon before.

Is it really wrong to ask questions why we have a private entity making convert decisions that put the entire protocol at risk?

You keep banging on about ‘permissionless’ this or that and decentralization. There shouldn’t need to be any trust involved. It seems to me that decentralization and transparency has been thrown under a bus regarding this degenbox saga.

I am merely asking for honesty and nothing more, so everyone can feel secure that their funds are not going to be destroyed by reckless unilateral decision making.

What really is the point of governance if this kind of stuff is going on behind closed doors?


Yes this feels very centralized and opaque except unlike real world centralization there’s no legal protections. Some transparency is required to make things work.

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That’s the thing, what TFL does with their money has nothing to do with the protocol, you could question the ability for UST to hold peg, or what’s being done with the community funds, but TFLs own money? That’s beyond the scope of governance. They’ve been been donating their own money to fill the yield reserve because it’s strategic to their own mission, but don’t make the mistake of thinking that you have a say in what they do with the rest.

They’re a private company developing Terra Money, if Terra is truly to be decentralized any other company should have the ability to come in and also develop, and then let the stakers decide where the network goes. Right now there’s no other interested parties afaik, but that doesn’t force TFL to disclose everything they do with their own money. Are they profiting from the network? I hope so, I’m sure they got bills to pay.

So yea, governance has no say over TFL or their money, they’re not a DAO, and the tweets you brought up and the statement that “it has become clear” is nothing but fud at the moment, and this really is a matter of trust. Nothing about this changed in the past few months, only the overall market sentiment that always brings out the negative narratives…

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You do realize that you’ve just given their argument on why there needs to be regulation for some itchy-to-regulate politicians here, right?